We Live Here! Florida Community Studies Consortium

"Robert Is Here"
Interview Transcript

Question: How would you describe your affinity for the land around here, as it developed in time.

Robert: Well, years ago I always used to say, "why is our area not developing whatsoever. I couldn't understand it. We had the end of the turnpike. We have a national park east; a national park southwest of us; and the entrance to  the Florida Keys. And I never really understood why it didn't explode years ago. And people from up north used to ask, like in Miami, when I'm up there doing stuff, I still live in Homestead. They said, "oh, my God that's so far away."

Question: Poor you.

Robert: I said, "you wouldn't like it. We love it down there. It's kind of nice we have not traffic. Our own little island here. And now that it has developed is absolutely incredible.

Question: When did you family first come?

Robert: My dad moved down here when I was one year old, in 1954. I was born in '53.

Question: Where are they from?

Robert: Just outside Chicago. They used to farm and my mom comes from a [INDISTINCT]. One of Granpa's farms is now O'Hare's runway. He sold it. I remember him selling it as I was just a little bitty kid. And I can remember his words, "some damn fool was stupid enough to give him 2,000 an acre for his piece of land. This was like '56, '57. So, I was just a little bitty kid, and I remember...

[00:03:22]

Question: What motivated him to come here?

Robert: Dad came here on vacation and, I guess it was just after I was born, did the Miami Beach thing and absolutely loved it here. I think because it was very much like what their area in Chicago was, really. Rural, very rural. When we moved down here there were only two other houses.

Question: What other family doe you have?

Robert: Ah, from... Other than my... All my uncles and aunts, everybody, all is still in Chicago, or they died. right now, I have my sisters here. My two brothers live in Virginia -- they really didn't grow up here, my half-brothers. Some things happened in the family. My father wasn't the nicest guy in the world. And, things happen. But, other than that I just my own immediate family, my wife and four children which one of them is in college, two of them just graduated college this year and one's in high school.

Question: They work here? A family business?

Robert: Yeah, when they are home they work here.

[00:05:21]

Question: You were how old? Did I read seven?

Robert: I was one year old when we moved here. But as far as how the stand got going... My dad was a farmer here, as he was up there, and he wasn't doing well. He had a rough time. Then Hurricane Donna hit in '60. I think it was '60. Yeah, it was the summer of '60. And we were doing even worse. But the summer of '59 -- the fall of '59 we had cucumbers. And the market was flooded with cucumbers. And a broker got a hold of him and told him that the cumbers were rotten. It might only have been twenty or thirty boxes, or forty boxes. I don't know how many it was. So we're not going to be able to sell them because the market's too cheap. So my dad didn't want him to dump his cucumbers because he wanted to use the box over again for the next picking. So he went and got them and then, you know, he didn't want to dump them either so he put me on the corner here -- right where we're standing -- it was the middle of November, and I sat here all day long with those cucumbers and absolutely nobody stops. So the next day he figured "maybe they didn't see him here." So next day he put up two big signs telling people that I was here. And I sold out in [INDISTINCT]. And that's how I got started. And the next Sunday we had cucumbers and squash, other stuff we grew on the farm, plus David Barnes brought me some tomatoes -- one of the old timers from here. And we sold the tomatoes, cucumbers, squash and the next weekend we got a little bit more stuff. We just kept on going and going.

Question: Who owned the property here at the time?

Robert: The same people who I bought it from a few years ago. I only bought it a few years ago. They would never sell it. I guess it must be about ten years, now. Every year I go... My dad passed away in '75. And every year that I would go pay rent -- I would go personally -- just ask them the question face-to-face. "Is there any chance you will sell me the property?" And they would always say, "no." And then about ten years ago I went in there and he says, "it's about time we sell you that property.

Question: How many acres you have?

Robert: I bought ten here, and he was very fair. At the time it was a little bit high for what land was going for and I had to pay for my building again and... It was fine. We were on one year leases. Kind of like...

Question: For twenty or thirty years?

[00:08:15]

Robert: Oh, yeah. Thirty-six years. It was strange, but that's just what he was.

Question: Were there a lot of people going to the park?

Robert: That's our customer base. Without the tourists we really can't function as we are. Without the tourists we would be a completely different operation. Whether better or worse, I don't know.

Question: And you say you're -- I don't want to put a label on it -- a middle man in terms of production?

Robert: We produce and we also buy. You can't produce everything we have to sell.
We're starting to sell stuff from around the world. We sell everybody's product from here. We have a hankering for the odd and weird.

Question: I was curious how that came about?

Robert: It's what we grow on our farm. You know, grew monsteras [sp?],  we grew sugar apples, we grew liches, the carambola. We had them. We had a few trees.

Question: Going all the way back, then?

Robert: Yeah, my dad... They started planting tropical fruit in the backyard and we'd bring it out here to sell it and then we started getting sales for something. Hey, your going to plant some more of that. And that's how it became.

Question: You hd some particular characters who would come back for some particular fruits...?

[00:09:35]

Robert: Yeah. We had a customer who was just here who always comes in and gets our papayas, mamay, you know. Stuff like that.

Question: In one sense, you're a little community.

Robert: Yeah, we have with our local clientele. Local means from West Palm Beach, south. South Beach. Coconut Grove. I don't say local as being here in our community -- Homestead. We get out local trade, from Homestead. There's  vegetable or two. A tomato or two. Or they buy stuff to ship to their friends at home. Or something like that.

Question: You ship yourself, from here?

Robert: Yeah, UPS goes everywhere.

Question: Tell me what it was like as a kid in terms of how hard you worked? And then I'm also interested in you leisure and how it might fit together with your work.

Robert: There's not much leisure here. It's just seven days a week. Very, very difficult especially when you're trying to have a family and you want to do family things and your family's involved in business. It's almost impossible. And the first couple of years we closed in the summertime and we went to the northeast and farmed. Almost like migrant farmers. We'd farm in Maryland on the Eastern Shore. I worked for a farmer up there. You know, we weren't doing well. We had to have the retail sales from here to supplement our farm. And then summertime there's nothing coming in at all so we had to go up there and work. And, it's just one of those things, everybody grovels as hard as you can when you're down. We seem to be groveling but we're not down anymore. I sent my kids to college, I bought some property. My dad had to sell property after Hurricane Donna to keep his head above water. It was a mortgage you couldn't pay and it was only 500 an acre for five acres and he had to let it go back. That's how bad we were doing. And after Andrew I caught myself in the same position. I didn't want to mortgage everything I had.

Question: Did you get bacly hit.

Robert: Oh, God. Andrew destroyed me. I was developing my little farm, five acres at a time and as one got producing I'd buy another one and make that one go, and everything got wiped out at the same time. And I wound up having to sell 15 acres to keep my head above water. and I gave it away. At the time, nothing was selling and now it's doing 150, 175 an acre for a producing grove. But I could not, I could not mortgage with no income. Just can't mortgage everything. The government wanted to give us a loan, and that's a mortgage, even though it's three percent interest, it's a mortgage. I had to be responsible or else I could have lost everything, including my
house.

[00:12:50]

Question: How much time, as a kid and since then, do you spend in either of the parks, like out in the bay. I gather you don't have a lot of extra time.

Robert: In Biscayne National Park I bet you, you can count when my kids went on their field trips out there, one or two days. In Everglades National Park I've spend a lot more time than Biscayne. I don't go underwater. It hurts my ears. I'm not a diver. I went lobstering with a guy one time, they did it with a net, it was shallow enough...

Question: What did you do out there?

Robert: Biscayne National Park, my kids had a field trip, a stay-over. I chaparoned and they cleaned the shore line, in elementary school or junior high a couple of times.

Question: What about the Everglades?

Robert: Everglades? We go out there. We went and say Hailey's Comet, one time. There's no lights. It was beautiful. We go to Royal Palm a lot. It's a nice place to get out and walk around. I do have to admit that since Hurricane Andrew I haven't been out there. No time. Like I say, we closed two or three years [sic] our first year we were open and then from '63, '64 on, seven days a week, every day of the year. Every day of the year; Christmas, New Years, Easter I'm here. My dad passed away September '75. We buried him on his birthday in October and we closed that day. And then we closed the day we buried my mom, after she was murdered in '92 and then Hurricane Ancrew closed us down for four weeks. Those are the days we have been closed the past 46 years, up until six years ago. Six years ago I've been closing the month of September and October, just to get a little weekend time with my kids.
 
Question: Do you still over your business?

Robert: I guess so. Yeah, i have to... Yeah, yeah. Very strong sense of responsibility in the community. Even though it's changing, it's still my community. I'm not going to turn my back on it. And we have not turned our back on it. We always do things. We're developing a new trail in our community. You get in your car and you drive around this map, and that will be off the ground in November or December. The Redland Tropical Trail. It's patterned very much after Redland Riot [?]. A bunch of us got together and put moneyup. A large sum of money for a small businessman. Trying to get this thing kicked off the ground. We like to do things for our local parades in town. Every parade, we're in. And, of course, we invite the seniors at the senior center.

Question: What do you do there?

[00:15:49]

Robert: All kinds of stuff. they're hungry people who either take medicine and don't eat, or eat and don't get their medicines, so...

Question: Do you feel closely associated withthe City of Homestead?

Robert: Redlands, Florida City and Homestead. It's a very different kind of community, with Redlands wanting to be a community now, we have to include them as part. they were always included in Homestead when you talk about Homestead-Florida City.  The Redlands were automatically included, but now they want to be know as a separate entity.

Question: Incorporated...

Robert: Whether they ever get incorporated, I don't know. They're doing that for different reasons but they just want to know that they were out here. Sometimes it's good not to be known. Like before we all got crazy with all the influx of people.

Question: Are you conversant over the hassle with the Urban Development Boundary Line. How do you react to that, since a lot of that relates to the price of land?

Robert: I know Florida City annexes to where they want to annex. I guess the theory would be this property would go crazy in price and my house property might drop in price.You know, where my house is a mile west.We're out in the country. I don't really want to be in the city. I don't know. It's very, very valuable to me to be in a city as far as this property. The best of both worlds would be if they annex up to my property line here and leave my house alone, would be fantastic. [LAUGHS] But, you're here for eighty good years and want to be healthy. [INDISTINCT] It's just frustrating.

Question: So, you see the houses, clumps of houses kind of moving?

Robert: Homes, condos, traffic, crime...

Question: Everything associated with it.

Robert: We had crime before, obviously. My mother was murdered out here in her house in the Redlands. So...

Question: 1992?

Robert:  1992. First and only murder out here. they've not had a murder since or before.

Question: They ever find out?

Robert: They have not.

[00:18:14]

Question:     Going back to this group, as a businessman how do you hope this develops?

Robert: Well, we're hoping with the Historical Redland Trail instead of property being sold for houses, because it is so valuable, that it will make it more profitable to be a farmer or have farming business on it, or something. Or, I would hope, it would be neat to have dotted through the community beautiful bed and breakfasts on these farms. Agro-tourism, yeah. Instead of developing farms, leave them farms but farms that make money in different ways. Kind of like Stavley's [Sp?] Winery. He's a farmer but he's trying to make wine out of his discards; carambola, liche, guava, stuff like that, and keep the farm, instead of selling it out for a nursery or to build homes. As long as he can make money on it he doesn't need to sell it .
  
Question: Are you pessimistic or optimistic about that direction?

Robert: I'm hoping it'll go. I have a feeling the economic stress is going to keep the development from continuing.

Question: The economy right now...

Robert: I think this country's in for 20 years of really horrible economic stress. I don't think we've moved in too much of the right direction with our government being crooked on both sides. The Republicans, Democrats, the only thing their trying to do is find money for their own personal pocket, legally, and absolutely nothing for what the office is supposed to be served. And I don't care, from councilmen up to the President of the United States, I'm not putting the blame on any one, it's the whole system. Back when we had our artificial fuel shortage, back  when I was a young man, and they had all the gas lines and there was not fuel, why didn't we as a country develop fuel sources, that they claim they've already got.

Question: You mean after the Arab...

Robert: This was in '76. Whatever it was. There's no oil and all of a sudden, 20 or 30 years later, we've still got plenty of oil. We burn as much fuel as we did before. Everybody's got to realize that. The price is still three, three-fifty a gallon.

Question: You mean relatively cheap?

Robert: Well you not standing in line cause there is none, see. We're not using any less, we're just paying more.

[00:21:02]

Question: There are some people who talk about the rising cost of fuel and fuel being far more expensive to bring in produce from California in the future.

Robert: Well, of course.

Question: There would be far more locally grown.

Robert: You can't grow lettuce here. You can't grow table grapes, You don't want to limit yourself, you know. We're still going to sell the beautiful stone fruit from California: the plums, nectarines. That's what we're used to. That's what we want. We're used to the best in this country. You know it's just funny that if we're paying 90 cents a gallon or, when I first started driving, it was 28 cents a gallon for gasoline. You've got to figure it. If there was a shortage -- if there was none -- you'd be standing in line for it. Now that has got to come too. But all it is now is the big oil companies have got everybody in their pocket. Everybody, all the politicians, are in their pocket. They're all getting paid.

[00:22:12]

...So nothing gets done....That's okay.  We want our big cars and fast cars.  But if we didn't buy them, they wouldn't make them.....It's going to take 20 years, at least 20 years, in my mind.  How do you stop it?  How do you get out of Iraq?

Question:  Do you get involved in local politics?

Robert:  I try not to.  It hurts everybody's feelings and I'm on a couple of boards in town and sometimes I'm the odd man out...I'm a registered Republican but I'm probably the most liberal Republican you've ever seen.  I'm on the Farm Bureau Board.  Most farmers are pretty...anybody who works really hard and spends their own money on something they're trying to get back, gambles with their own earth and stuff, is usually Republican.  Not that it's good or bad but they're really, really, conservative and like I'd be the odd man out.

Question:  How do you account for that?  Where did it come from?

Robert:  I can see both sides....[PROMPT FROM QUESTIONER..Your Dad?)  No, I can just see both sides.  I farm, I buy from farmers, I sell to the public, yet I'm a consumer, I buy.  I can see both sides.  I can see someone struggling who can't make a living, that needs help.  Then I see others complaining that they didn't make any money this year and they're buying their new $180,000 car.  I see both sides.

Question:  What about pesticides?

Robert:  They have really changed....

Question:  Do you remember problems?

Robert:  I learned it first hand.  My Dad started at Flood Control in 1970 cause he quit farming.  He got out of the farming business the year before I got into the farming business  and the first job he had at Flood Control was applying aquatic weed killer on the canal banks.  He killed a bunch of fish by applying this and he refused to do it anymore and he got fired for not obeying the foreman's order and he wouldn't let himself be fired....He says we're going to have news media here in the office and then you can fire me and he called media down and it would up he wasn't fired as long as he didn't...you know...and then they started doing it different.  But, yeah, they were using pesticides unsafe for humans as they were putting it on....No mask, no suit, no information what it can do to you.  It was, basically, agent orange and five years later I sat down with my doctor that examined by dad, cause he was really in bad shape, and he said, "You're Dad's got a really severe case of leukemia." And you count back five years and that's when he started. 

Now with the pesticides on the crops we have to be certified to buy it and you have to prove where you put it.  You have to use the labels for the crop you're doing it on, wear your mask and your gear and everything.  You can't overdose it and the stuff they're using goes away every four hours.

Question:  Are a lot of farmers angry at overregulation on those terms?

Robert:  Well...most of them are really aggravated with having to be regulated but they're happy we're regulated and producing such a safer crop.  It's a catch 22...if you get caught doing it illegally it's financial suicide.  You'd be better to import drugs than to get caught using pesticides illegally.  It's really strict and that's the way it has to be.  Everybody who I know is doing it legally.  It's frustrating.  You go 55 miles an hour and you go 80 you get there quicker.  But we're saving fuel and saving lives by not crashing by going 55 and it frustrates you.  But when you're spraying chemicals, the safety, everybody I talk to, we go to these meetings, we keep our credits up, it's aggravating, it's frustrating, but everybody's on the same page.  Nobody wants to put out a product that's not safe.  Yet we want to produce stuff that's disease-free, that's pest free.  I don't care how much organic you do down here it's going to have diseases and pests in it.

[00:27:46]

Question:  Is there a push for organic?

Robert:  There is some.  It's a pendulum swing.  This way's no goo and this way's no good.  In the middle is where you have to be.  You can't be all organic.  Everyone will starve.  You can't spray like hell.  It's just too risky...cancer...diseases...leukemia. Doing it in the middle. Anything to excess is not great.

Question:  Can you talk about the Farm Bureau and your role in it?

Robert:  We try to raise money for farm-related interests, water, labor, pest control, to help put out the knowledge, to inform farmers about what we got to do. if we need a permit for wells, what we need to do for pest control licenses.  Political activism to keep things from getting pushed over and eliminate rights for farmers...because if you own a piece of property somewhere and he has a farm somewhere, and you're both Americans, presumably, has the farmer got less right to sell his property for whatever than you do.  It's a Catch-22.  It's farmers own demise, having that right.  It's just as much his right to sell his property for a big profit to be developed as it is for you to sell yours which is already in a city as long as zoning is changed legally an everything's done, the farmer has a right.  That's what we're here for.  It is our demise as a farmer to have it developed.  It's a Catch 22.

Question:  Do you think most farmers are conscious of this....proactive...

Robert:   I don't believe the U.S. government wants farming here in this country.  They create a thing like NAFTA where stuff can come in, you can bring product in from countries where you have no control over pest control, no control of their human rights issues, no control of the sanitation of their process.  And yet we want it cheap.

Question: How do you deal with that directly here?

Robert:  We get stuff from Mexico and you just hope their regulatory agencies are on the ball.  So you hope and pray that [INDISTINCT] are doing okay.  Things are changing around the world, hopefully, for the better, in terms of human conditions and better wages.  I went to Guatemala [INDISTINCT] Eleven cents an hour is what you get for picking.

Question:  I was curious if you've traveled much to Latin America, looking for fruits....

Robert:  Some of the stuff I sell they won't let them import.  I grow them here. 

Question:  Have you gotten around this country much....

Robert:  Yeah....After Andrew...Andrew was '92...in '95 I bought a van and a trailer and a nice big tent and we went camping in a tent, my family, four kids and my wife and we went all around the country and it was good....in farming areas...We even did Las Vegas bu we couldn't camp in Las Vegas.  It was too hot.  I would imagine in the 12 years since then, it's changed, the places that we went.  More people...More houses built.

Question:  How about downtown, Miami Beach, do you go there very often...as a kid did you do it...

Robert:  We used to skip school and go to South Beach.  That's when South Beach had the pier there and it was all run down.  Then I got married in '81, then the pier wasn't too run down when I was in high school.  When I got married, I took my wife over there and it was scary as hell.  I guess in the late 80's it rejuvenated and it's elegant there now.

Question:  Do you go there very often?

Robert: I don't have time.  I'm too old for that.  All the young kids out there on rollerblades and stuff.  It's fun to watch but not what I can do.

Question:  And downtown Miami?

Robert:  It's scary too.  I go to the Arena.  I've not been to the new arena sine they moved over, for basketball.  I've been to a couple of basketball games in the old arena.  You've got jury duty and stuff like that...

[00:34:01]

Question: What you're saying, in one sense, is your life is fully here.

Robert: Yeah, pretty much.

Question: Not here, but Homestead.

Robert: Yeah.

Question: I'm wondering a little more about the community, the politics of Homestead in the last twenty years. How has it changed.

Robert: Pretty much the same people are running the show. Steve Shire was mayor for a while and Tad DeMille [sp?] was mayor when Andrew came through. Talk about Homestead... Now you've got Roscoe Warren. Mr. Warren's been there doing a good job. I think, after Andrew, people in power sold Homestead out -- to change the zoning for a lot of things to high density apartments and stuff. So, they got a lot of money for that and...

Question: There were charettes. I know there were all these things...

Robert: Well they got money for all these apartment buildings. We're in apartment building heaven and who are you going to have move into these apartment buildings. Say they empty Overtown out into Miami city limits. And now Overtown is now starting to rejuvenize [sic] because the population is gone from there they knock the apartments down and its valuable property. We've transferred poverty from Overtown to Homestead. and, I'm not here to judge anybody's quality as a person, just their economic background. Anytime you have poorer people in an area, you have a higher percentage, it's harder on that community. Homestead's having to deal with a very, very high percentage of more impoverished people.

Question: How does that break down -- how has that changed in terms of Hispanic or African-Americans, migrant labor...?

Robert: I don't know. You can't get locals to work here.[LAUGH] On the farms, zero. You can't do it. Anybody working on the farms is usually out of Guatemala or Nicaragua or Honduras or somewhere like that.

Question: Has there been significant tension with that change between migrant labor and business...?

[00:36:22]

 
Robert:  It's always been a problem, you know. You want to have enough help. Now it's a real problem because you get caught with somebody illegally, you're in big trouble.

[INDISTINCT]

A lot of farmers have quit. Tommy Tolbert [sp?], he flat out quit farming. One of the best farmers. And that was one of the factors. If you get caught with someone giving him a phony Social Security number, then it's his fault. And you can't track down a phony one. This is your name and your Social Security and you go run it. Yeah. that's a good one, so you work him, but it's really not yours.

Question: How long has this been so heightened?

Robert: It was in the news last year.

Question: Last couple of years?

Robert: Yeah. It's always been a bit of a problem. It's the situation we're in. Everybody deserves to make a living and you don't want to see anybody go hungry. I don't know what the answer is. I really don't. Here you've got work that needs to be done and you can't hire these people that are here because they're illegal and they'll find you house to break into. They'll find his house to break into, you know. They're going to eat. I'll tell you that right now. Whether you work them or let them pillage through the countryside. Then, if we catch them as a criminal, then we get to house them in our prisons. Where's the answer?

You asked me before if I got involved in politics -- I've got good reason not to.[LAUGHS].

[00:38:12]

Question: How about your relationship with Everglades National Park; administration, staff...

Robert: We have a director down there now who is just like a [INDISTINCT]. He's just... everything I've talked to him about doing, he's done. So, wow. He actually did the most unbelievable thing, he came to the Farm Bureau meeting. Which, the National Park and the Farm Bureau has been at odds for years.

Question: How so?

Robert:  Just when one says black the other says white.

Question: Is there any particular reason?

Robert: I don't want to get involved in that. But, it's always been that way. And it's always been known -- it's documented. He comes to the Farm Bureau meeting last month and we, as members of the Farm Bureau, which I'm in real good relationship with the director already as far as personally, but everybody goes 'wow.' This guy's telling us that he's tickled to death to have farmers as a green space between the National Park and further development. He's tickled to death to have us. He says "whatever we can do as a National Park to make your job easier, politically or whatever you need, let us help you[INDISTINCT] that you need us to help you with." It was good.

[00:39:31]

Question: Does that relate to marketing?

Robert: No. No, I don't know about marketing. Like water issues, because the Army Corps is really killing us with too much water here. Where a lot of places we have a water issue in reverse -- not enough water. From 41 south we've got too much water. And they're still making us buy our water rights, even though we have so much water we can't use it all. It's always been that way, always will be. [INDISTINCT] It's just the way it is.

So anyway, with the national parks, I would imagine some of them have more of a problem with them at the Biscayne National Park because a lot of the lands are declared wetlands, whatever. That's the national park that does that, I don't know. Some of these guys are farming tree farms. They're saying "they're wetlands, you've got to take trees off." they weren't declared wetlands before, now they are. Because water's so [INDISTINCT].

Question: Do you remember the struggle with Biscayne National Park and Islandia back in the '60s? The eventual creation of Biscayne National Park and some of the struggles over it?

[TALKS ON RADIO]

Robert: I got orders I've to fill. I’m going to lose money on them, but I've got to fill them.

[TALKS ON RADIO]

 Robert: It's really slow right now. Plus we're going to close... Some of the kids graduate high school and college.

Question: Do you have people coming back?

Robert:  I try to, but this year we're going to have a rough time. We're going to have to start out with a whole bunch of new people this year because we have a lot of people moving on this year.

Question: Do you notice a change in the people who work here, their attitudes towards work or farming...

Robert: Well, you've got an attitude. You can't generalize. You've got some people who are 'go-getters' and they're happy and they're fun and they work and they take responsibility and have pride. And then you have some -- you try not to get the ones that don't have pride, who couldn't care less. They're trying to make their hourly wage and that's it and they don't realize you've got to do five times your hourly wage to make a go. I can't afford to have them here if I'm just going to break even on just what they're making.

Question: Are you very religious yourself, or not? And I'm wondering about the role of religion in Homestead and this area and how it's changed.

Robert: What's religion, going to church?

Question: You can define it as you want.

[00:43:17]

Robert: Going to church? No, I've had the church of "Robert is Here" since I was six years old. Every Sunday. Every day. [LAUGHS] I'm not a believer in too many fairy tales. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is a pretty good story. You've got stories about Mickey Mouse, written down, cartoons and stuff. And, everyone needs to have something that makes them whole. And I think that everybody who grabs on -- whatever they grab on -- it's fantastic. Make them whole, no matter what it is. But you can't look out there and see something grow. You can't look out there and see you kid get born. You can't see someone doing brain surgery, has the knowledge to go inside a human brain and extract something that's making a human brain bad, and the human comes back and he's okay. That man had to be so smart, or woman,  to do that, there has to be something so much more powerful than we can imagine that makes that happen be it up there [POINTS] or wherever he hangs out. No one has really convinced me of where that power is hanging out. But he's definitely got... We can't do this. We can clone something, we think. We can manipulate. We're so smart. We've obtained the capability of learning this stuff through whatever this power is. I'm not here to defend or define or control any power. I can't defend it, I can't define it, I don't know where it's at. All I know is you plant a seed and it grows. We can't do that.

Question: Have you gotten in a lot of religious discussions, debates with people around here?

Robert: You try not to. It's generally bad for business.

Question: If there is heavy intolerance from churches...?

Robert: Well, church is great. I think the whole idea of church is, originally back before we had army's or police forces, was to keep the population under control. With no control we'd go crazy as humans. We don't have respect for anybody, unless there's a consequence to ourselves. And that's what it was. They have to have a consequence. No policemen, no army so without a consequence you go in and rape someone’s wife and screw you. You got no [INDISTINCT]. Now that we have police force and everything else the least consequence, the less consequence we apply to people, starting at an early age, screw you, I can handle that consequence. They go do [INDISTINCT]. so we need a structure as humans. I don't mean as man or woman or you or I -- as humans. We need a structure and as far as religion goes, if they keep their nose clean and make everybody be happy for everybody else and not worry about twisting someone's arm to believe like you believe or "I'm going to kick you ass if you don't believe." [LAUGHS] If religion would stay as what every person needs. If you need that when you go there, you need this when you go there, you need that when you go there, and that would fit you, but they all wound up...they all wind up talking about some other religion and how yours is so much better than theirs instead of love and friendship, letting everybody get along.

[00:47:01]

Question: I'm wondering about the mystical or religious feelings you get working here.

Robert: Yeah, you have to. That's what makes you believe there's someone bigger than anyone can imagine. I'm not going to try to convince you in what I believe. You can't deny this seed growing and making a plant and how you can graft another tree onto that and change it. You know, we're manipulating through education. We're smart enough because someone gave us the power to learn and be educated in how to graft and how to keep diseases off and how to do things.

Question: Your marketing, creating a bunch of different spreads. There's a beauty in that.

Robert: You'd be a fool if you didn't think there was a real religious power in the world. Religious might be the wrong word to use, but there's a greater power than we all can imagine.

Question: In one sense it comes from the land?

Robert: Yeah, everything's just got circles. Everything goes in a circle. Everything's revolving and changing and everything else. But, when it comes back to it something's gotta grow new and we can't sit down in a lab and develop a seed to make anything. We can change a seed. You can genetically alter it by pollinating it different to change that. But, we can't just say, "okay, here's a seed to a brand new plant that's never been known in the world."

Question: Do you use a computer in the business?

Robert: I'm computer illiterate. Never clicked a mouse. Probably one of the few people you will ever meet.

Question: Does the business run with a computer?

Robert: No... Well, my wife's got a computer at home. But we try not to get too much on it. She still pays the checks with the bills. Very backwards. Got into the computer age when the kids got into high school. All the other kids were kicking their ass at homework. The kids got computers.

Question: What about your marketing operation, here? How do you get the word out to a lot of people? Is a lot of it word of mouth?

Robert: It's all word of mouth.

Question: Is it really?

Robert: Yeah. I got the visitor center in Homestead at U.S. 1, just south of the Burger King -- I'm on there board too [LAUGHS], But we're just hanging around one place too long. And then we're doing the Redland Tropical Trail. I think that's going to be... With eight of us sharing customers, and then getting a little publicity from simply being in the organization, and the local markets, local TV and newspapers are starting to show interest.  You know. Because, we have a changing tourism trade, I think.

Question: Cultural tourism...

Robert: Well, I think we have a changing tourism because I thinkwe might not have enough people with enough money to come down here twice a year or once a year. They might only come down once every ten years. So we're going to have to get from the four or five million people that are in our community to know that we are here. This is why we're doing this "tropical trail."

Question: Does the Dade County Cultural Affairs Council and other places like that -- are they interested in what you are doing?

Robert: I'm sure. I'm not only on the board, I don't [INDISTINCT] the president. Peter Stanway's [sp?], he's the president. He is a 'go-getter'. He's gotten real political with it. Got politics involved. Wanting money from this and the other. They're trying to get me on another board which -- can't remember the name of it --  but it's the board in charge of funding of all these grants that are being put out for tourism.

Question: Miami Convention Board, or something like that?

Robert: That's an entity. But there's a board that's in charge of all the money they put out. Which I think is a separate board from the Convention board.

Question: There is a Dade County Cultural...

Robert: I'm not sure what it is, but I had to submit my resume and stuff. They want someone from down here and I guess they have two people they wanted to do it. Neither one of us would do it. Then on the same day, both of us said "okay, we'll do it. You twisted our arm enough." I really haven't sat down. They're gonna be four times a year, whoever has to go. That's just getting involved with the community.

Question: You've been watching tourism for some forty years?

Robert: Forty-six years.

Question: You've seen it change. The people change, I guess. You've seen the attractions change. In one sense you must have been part of the change?

Robert: I'm probably one of the longest running liaisons between agriculture and tourism in south Dade County. Anywhere. In Dade County. Probably in the State of Florida. Because without tourists we can't survive. It's all tourists. Introducing new products and stuff like that. New to them: sugar apples and carimbolas [INDISTINCT]. the average Northwesterner, Midwesterner, Northeasterner doesn't know.

Question: You dazzle them? If there was one other thought you wanted to leave with, let's say, high school students about the state of agriculture in south Dade, that you haven't talked about. Is there anything else that you would [INDISTINCT].

Robert: The state of agriculture in south Dade is being changed. It's going to be more nurseries and maybe some tropical fruit. Squash and beens and cucumbers and tomatoes and stuff, is real tough. High school students? Get as much education as you possibly can and change it to the better when you get in charge.

Question: What about the importance of a consciousness about land use. Kids don't know, it's very complex?

Robert: Yeah, land use is complex. Got to have green space and yet the guy who owns the green space has the right to sell it. And if the fathers in charge of zoning change the zoning... It's a political system. Here you go, you're involved in politics again. It's a catch 22. It's farmers demise, having the right to sell their property.

Question: The right to sell out and go to Miami Beach?

Robert: Or somewhere else. And not work anymore. Or not work for... Maybe less than a few years ago.

Question: What your saying though is you've worked your tail off for forty some odd years, but you love the work.

Robert: I would absolutely be heartbroken and probably demoralized the day I sell my property [INDISTINCT]. that would probably be the end. It's not a life I can see.

Question: Has anyone every tried to...?

Robert: Not yet. Waiting. To see what they offer. [LAUGHS] But the lady behind me sold and they're talking about putting a bunch of houses in the ten acres right behind this store. And that's horrible. And it's sold, signed, delivered. She got a million five for ten acres.

Question: And the zoning changes and whatnot...?

Robert: Apparently, it's no problem. I don't know. I don't know. It was in the Miami Herald, someone told me, last Sunday or Saturday.

Question: Where do you get most of your sources of news from? By the mouth, again?

Robert: No. I get a lot of news sitting in the Farm Bureau. I get a lot of news on TV. The local newspapers, pretty good. I don't read the Herald as much as I should. I don't have the time to sit down. The Homestead News Leader's... The factual news and the news in the News Leader  you can get it in two or three sections and the rest of it's filler. Where in the Herald there's news all through it and you have to have time to sit down. I just have not managed my time well enough to take the time to do it. But my wife reads a lot. She comes across something or people who work with me or for me or are friends, my mom. It's just like everyone else.

Question: I want to thank you very much for you time...

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